Should Bungie Downloadable maps be mandatory? (Via update.)

Jon God · Post by **Jon God** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:42 am

I only recently found out that bungie made some post-release multiplayer maps for Myth II. Yeah, tell me I'm slow,

Anyways, I think that it would a nice idea to have these maps be incorporated into Myth II, as base maps, along with all the originals, so people have another 5 base maps to play on.

Since they are Bungie's work, they wouldn't collide in style, and I think it would be a nice fit.

Here is a list of the maps for those who don't know of them (as if

):

Boil and Bubble, Toil and Trouble
Cryptic Wightings
Going to Town
Leagues from Nowhere
Pheonix Rising

If you are against this, please post your reasons for it, Thanks!

Eddaweaver · Post by **Eddaweaver** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:34 am

I think the idea would be the plugins would be installed by the updater's installer and then the mesh's names would automatically appear in the New Game list like a native map, whenever Myth II detects those plugins as being available.

There's no need for them to be "mandatory" per se.

Boil, Leagues and Phoenix are ready to go for 1.7 if Magma wants to add this feature.

The other 4 would need some reviewing.

http://tain.totalcodex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3682

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:35 am

Although it's not official cannon, I would replace Leagues from Nowhere with Leagues from Somewhere - a semi recent update of the original by Baak in which he fixed a couple of things that weren't quite right in the original and fixed Bungie's 'lost' peasant swine rider unit so it has an attack, it also has the best Ghol Riot units/gameplay of ANY map, Baak's "Uber Ghol Riot" plugin is incrporated into several UGR specific meshes.

Likewise, Baak's "Triskelion" is a cleaned up, fixed and completely playable version of Bungies never completed "Cryptic Wightings" map. It's a huge map and is notable for it's 3 start meshes (a rarity) and scripting to ensure that no team has even a millisecond advantage over any other team in KoH games.

Inclusion of these two Bungie based maps would add 16+ meshes to the collection of standard Bungie maps.

Eddaweaver · Post by **Eddaweaver** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:30 am

I'm not enthused by the idea of including Leagues from Somewhere or Triskelion because they are not anything like standard maps or something Bungie would make. What I mean is it would almost be like including Bolo.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:17 am

I am guessing with your comparison to one of the weirdest non-standard Bungie like plugins ever made (Bolo) that you aren't a big fan of things that aren't standard Bungie fare, but even so, that's a really weird comparison Edda. Maybe you are confusing Baak's Rocket Dorf unit conversion with these improved Bungie maps?

I can see that Uber Ghol Riot units isn't as Bungielike as the rest of the meshes, but the rest of the Map IS the bungie map. So the non-Bungie-like additions in Leagues From Somewhere are on additional meshes so LFS is really just a LFN bungie map with additional gametypes and units on new meshes.

The Triskelion comparison is completely inaccurate as (as best I can recall) there isn't anything 'non-Bungie-standard' on the map at all other than the KoH script that just makes the map fair for ALL starts - a lot of maps give a second or two advantage to one team or another which can be crucial in a closely fought game - but you can't really complain that that is unBungie . The "Fixes" baak made were to things like the water depth and passability where there were obvious problems - e.g. Baak fixed the things that Bungie never finished - aka the reasons Bungie never officially released the map.

Sonixboom · Post by **Sonixboom** » Fri May 08, 2009 10:08 am

there great maps

phoenix rising was the mwc 00-01 finals map

as for cryptic wightings didnt it take us like 10 years to even find that map LOLZ. i mean wasnt it just a pregame and someone then liek sorted through millions of lines of crap to find it,

sure add those 5 maps into myth 1.7

-Saint Ã¢â‚¬Â

Eddaweaver · Post by **Eddaweaver** » Fri May 08, 2009 11:03 am

I did make comparisons before posting. What Baak has made there is a large group of eccentric meshes which are not faithful to what Bungie made or what they would ever have made. If we are thinking in terms of adding Bungie maps or Bungie style maps, they are not it. I believe I can complain that they are unBungie.

If the missing Bungie maps were to be included with the updater, it would need to be optional. I.e. the updator would be available with or without the plugins.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:30 pm

Edda, the only thing that screenshot proves is that Baak's mesh names are "non-Bungie-like".

Is that what you mean by "eccentric" maps? Seriously, I've probably played the meshes on that map hundreds of times and other than a dark and light mesh that has flare dwarves, I can't remember anything 'eccentric', and even those are units from a BUNGIE solo campaign. Even rereading the map readme, all there is that's non Myth2 standard is the Bungie flare dorfs on a couple of meshes, the King of the Hill equalizer that makes the game fair for all teams, and Scavenger Hunt that doesn't show balls on the overhead so you actually have to hunt for them. Is that "eccentric"? It seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't really want to have a big argument or anything, and I would only lobbying to have Triskelion added to the mapset IF OTHER Bungie created maps are added, but unless you have specific examples of what you consider 'un-bungie' I am thinking maybe you are just lumping this map in with other more 'eccentric' or less-Bungie-like creations by Baak and/or other OoHers. I think that, because while my threshhold for what constitutes 'eccentric' might be higher than yours, I've given it some thought and reread the readme for the map and other than the meshnames there really doesn't seem to be anything at all eccentric to me.

Graydon · Post by **Graydon** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:21 pm

Aye, I have to agree with VR here Sharp. You've only demonstrated a multitude of string lists with different numbered starting locaations.

What VR is saying abotu the various fixes Baak has done are totally valid. We call the map whatever it was originally called, but it still needs to have the fixes/reviews you mentioned. I'm pretty sure Baak has successfully done this for us already and renamed the product with his own unique touch.

Providing he's ok with it, we modify those tags to their original names, make Bungie esque pregames (there's lots of skill in the community to do that, I'm sure I can), and we're golden.

I also think that what Jon meant by mandatory is that EVERYONE would have to download this update. No choice to get it or not get it. Its part of the 1.7 update, end of story. I think that's the best route. It adds 5 more colourmaps into the mix for everyone whether they like it or not.

There's not too many people on dialup anymore. Size is hardly an issue.

Do you not agree?

Jon God · Post by **Jon God** » Sat May 09, 2009 3:01 am

There's also the Chimera multiplayer map, though I don't know what people think of that. I'm also not sure if bungie had any hand in it, or if it was all Badlands..

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Sat May 09, 2009 6:29 am

The Chimera issue is an interesting one, my understanding is that some (All?) of the badlands mapmakers were Bungie employees working on stuff on their own time.

king paris · Post by **king paris** » Sat May 09, 2009 9:23 am

Sonixboom wrote:there great maps

phoenix rising was the mwc 00-01 finals map

no, it was the finals map in the phoenix rising tournament, which is where it came from.

Jon God · Post by **Jon God** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:07 pm

vinylrake wrote:The Chimera issue is an interesting one, my understanding is that some (All?) of the badlands mapmakers were Bungie employees working on stuff on their own time.

Oh really? Interesting stuff. I should check out what else they did.

Who voted no and didn't leave a reason?

remedial · Post by **remedial** » Sun May 10, 2009 12:31 am

vinylrake wrote:The Chimera issue is an interesting one, my understanding is that some (All?) of the badlands mapmakers were Bungie employees working on stuff on their own time.

I'm not exactly sure how this worked out- and whether Badlands was a separate entity from the get-go. I had always thought that the (new) Myth 2 multiplayer maps were all created by Badlands' mapmakers separate from the rest of the game's single player creation. If you take a look, they even seem to have a different feel from the solo maps included with the game.

There was once a lengthy dialogue pulled from an appearance by Fisj on Hotline. He laid out the Badlands/Bungie relationship- which was almost a Vista/Bungie deal initially for the creation of Daimyo I believe? (Basically he recounted some interesting events that transpired between TFL and M2...)

Its been a while- and I can't really remember the details. Does anyone know where a copy of this can be found? Also, feel free to correct/ comment on that- because my memory is hazy.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand to stay on topic- I think that it would be cool to have some of the post- release maps included in 1.7- just so they would get a little more circulation.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Sun May 10, 2009 1:48 am

One source says several Bungie (or ex-Bungie) staffers worked on Chimera (A Badlands project). Of course these accounts aren;t necessarily contradictory.

Another (the badlands FAQ circa 2001) says that several Ex-Badlands team members went to work for Bungie AFTEr the Chimera project.

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=31450175
(search for Former Bungie Employee)

http://web.archive.org/web/200112121534 ... s/faq.html

The Tain