A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

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A-Red
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by A-Red »

As far as I know, the only connection that TSG makes to the lore of the original Myth games is in the flavor texts of the various Dwarf units. I can't recall the exact details and I don't have those flavor texts extracted at the moment, but from what I remember, they mention that the Dwarves immigrated to the TSG continent after the war with Soulblighter. The immigration would have to have happened that late in the timeline, because the dwarves in TSG have mortar technology, which rules out any connection to the much, much earlier Spider Cult. Also, the idea of the trolls evolving into Trow (or vice versa) seems far-fetched, since the Trow were one of the earliest races to ever exist in the Myth world (created directly by the goddess Nyx), and they're immortal, so evolution doesn't really apply.

Fan-fiction and modding are not considered copyright infringement, fortunately :) As long as you don't try to do anything commercial with your work, there's no barrier to you creating and sharing stories set in worlds that other people have created. That's what fan communities are all about!
A-Red
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by A-Red »

Sorry for the double post, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to dig up the lore. Here are the relevant flavor texts:


Trolls:
"...have inhabited this land far longer than Elf or Goblin. Curiously, their closest counterparts are found in Dwarven and Human legend, and it may be that they are debased cousins of..."

...of Trow, obviously. But again, I can't really buy it. The flavor text presents this as speculation, not fact.


Dwarves:
"The Dwarves seem curiously disinclined to revisit their distant homelands and brethren. Some suggest that their departure from Myrgard was not entirely voluntary..."
"We asked for shelter, and were refused; pleaded for new clothing, and were refused; begged for food, and were refused. Arakne grant that the Elves come groveling to *us* one day..."
"The strange little men arrived hundreds of years ago in balloons from across the sea... claiming Harvek Mountain from the dark creatures inhabiting it, they prospered and grew strong."
Dwarf Hero:
"...when he learned that his own brothers sought to revive that dark faith, he confronted them near Galathvalia...two fell before the third fled west into the deep mountains..."

It does seem like they're pointing strongly at a connection to the Spider Cult. However, I don't think it could be the cult of Connacht's time. Take a look at the Mortar flavor:
"Mortar technology was in its infancy when the explorers departed, but they never forgot the promise it held. They vowed to continue development once time and resources permitted."

Mortar technology was in its infancy during Myth II. It sounds to me like the Dwarves left the Myth continent right around that time -- my guess would be shortly after the events of Myth II, but there's no way to know exactly. My interpretation is that somewhere around that time, a group of Dwarves revived the old Spider Cult and were exiled. This is possibly the event that the Dwarf Hero flavor refers to, but I think the flavor is saying that the cult was RE-revived on the TSG continent; otherwise I can't see any reason why it would be the flavor for a specific Dwarf Hero unit. Also, there are no "deep mountains" to the west of Myrgard.

If this timeline is correct, then TSG takes place "hundreds of years" after Myth II. That's as specific as you can get from existing lore, I think.

I can't find any other connection between the lore of the TSG campaign and the original games at the moment, and I don't remember anything else from playing TSG in the past. The berserk flavors make no reference to their counterparts on the Myth continent.

I also don't believe TSG is set in the Untamed Lands to the east of the lands where the Myth games take place. I can't verify this from any canonical lore, only from my own expanded lore for TFV and such. However, there's no mention in the original games of any of the TSG races in the Untamed Lands, no reference to any of them in Chimera (which actually takes place in the Untamed Lands), and nothing in TSG that says what direction the Dwarves came from, or anything else that suggests that the Myth lands are to the west. I always imagined it as being a separate continent to the north or west, personally. You might be able to determine possible geography based on relative climates within each continent (for instance, if it's colder in the north of the Myth continent and colder in the south of the TSG continent, then the Myth continent is in the northern hemisphere and the TSG continent is in the southern hemisphere), but I don't know if enough information is available. In the Myth lands, it appears to only get really cold in the mountains, and the whole continent seems to be temperate with distinct seasons. In TSG, I *think* the zerk lands are in the north and are considered to be the coldest part of the continent, but I'm not sure (EDIT: checked. This is true).
Souly
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by Souly »

aaaa i miss you Ared :twisted:
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Forrest
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by Forrest »

I was a nominal member of Creation at the time TSG was being made and consulted on its backstory. IIRC the team seemed pretty uninterested in pinning down an exact relation between the TSG world and the Myth world, but the general concept I remember is that it was set on the other side of the planet from the continent we know from Myth. The Dwarves got there via balloon as their title text says, and trolls are maybe relatives of the Trow (thus also created by Nyx, if so), as already discussed. The Northmen are directly related to the Northmen from the Homeland maps, having sailed around the arctic seas to reach the north of the continent on the other side of the world. The rest of the humans are descended from the Drowned Kingdom of Yer-Ks, who were expert seafarers and also lived in the north. I'm pretty sure that part was not my own creation, and might actually be referenced indirectly in a flavor text somewhere, though I don't have easy access to those to confirm it.

Back when it was still in development, I actually wrote a very extensive (in-universe) connection relating the history of that side of the world to the history of the known Myth world, which obviously didn't really get used anywhere in the game and is not canon, and I'm not super proud of my writing abilities from back then, but if it's of interest to anyone I'm happy to share it here. Spoilered for length:
Genesis
A thesis by Moban-uul, undergraduate at Syvaahn Theological Academy
With materials by Antinial the Elder, wizard of Thell, speaker at Syvaahn Theological Academy.


All of our recent history has revolved around our relations with the races of Humans and Dwarves who occupy our ancestral lands. But as all Elves know, there was a time when we did not have these companions. A time when the entire eastern land was ruled by Elven kings, and only the vile Goblins existed to challenge our purity.

Even generations just now passed on could recall the arrival of the most recent settlers, the wild men who sailed across the poles to settle the Northland Kingdom. Before that, the surly Dwarves who fell from the sky in floating ships, sailing on a sea of hot air. And farther still into the mists of time, the Human refugees from the ruined nation of Yer-ks, on the far side of the world.

Before any of them, there were only the Elves. A long period of our history leading up to the Yer-ks settlers details nothing but the reconstruction of our vast, ruined lands, the very same lands now settled by these impure commoners from afar. And before that were the wars. The endless wars with our ancient Goblin enemies.

All of prehistory consists of the wars, and the long periods of reconstruction between them. This is where the records become thin, what with us having lost so many of our great libraries in the last great war before the colonists came. From what we can reconstruct, it seems that for many millenia, the Goblins would grow militant and unite under a single banner, to rage across the plains and pillage our forests here in the east. Meanwhile, our quest for purity would grow ever stronger, and we would erect massive defenses against the barbaric Goblins to save our beautiful cities and pure ways of life.

Then the wars would end, all of our numbers decimated and only the strongest still alive, and for centuries more we would rebuild our lands while the Goblins repopulated their empire to the west. Some of our scholars are frightened because, if there truely is a pattern to the great wars of the past, then the period of reconstruction is almost over, and another great war is sure to come soon.

But this is all history, freely available to anyone in the Academy's vast library. The topic of this paper is theology.

I have discovered, in the dimmest of prehistorical records, texts which speak of the first great war, and of more than that - of our very creation. I appologise to in advance to all those whose sensibilites I may offend, for what I am about to say goes against not only the accepted beliefs of all our people, but those of every race known to us.

These texts speak of a god who came to our world from another realm and crafted a great land on the far side of the world, but failed in his efforts and, despondent, came to rest over the wild lands which once grew here. He created us and the Goblins, and ruled over the wars and periods of reconstruction to further a cause too great for our mortal minds to grasp. And then, abruptly, only a few thousand years ago... he left us.

Initially I dismissed these findings as the ravings of a primitive madman who knew not the true love of nature that guides us in our quest for perfection. But upon hearing a lecture by Antinial the Elder in the Academy's main hall last month, I came upon a revelation. He too had discovered an ancient text from his people's past, buried beneath the ruined Old Temple in Thell.

The text which Antinial had found spoke of a god named "Wyrd", who awoke from the "One Dream" and, in a great battle with the goddess "Nyx", created the lands from which our Human and Dwarven companions have come, on the far side of the world. Wyrd won the battle, but Nyx created a troll-like race of stone giants, who ruled over Wyrd's lands for millenia. Every attempt at civilization Wyrd created was soon crushed by these might beasts called "Trow", and eventually the despondant deity simply stopped trying.

This discovery shed new light on mine. I contacted Antinial, and for the past month we have been constructing the background for this thesis. We put forward the following theory:

There exist three realms of existance - a higher realm known as the One Dream, our realm, and a lower realm now inhabited by a race of Dark Gods. Long ago, say Antinial's records, our world was ruled by these Dark Gods, before Wyrd arrived from the One Dream and banished them to their nether-realm. The Gods of War worshipped by the Goblins may have been some of these, as they survived for a period into our early history before their banishment.

Wyrd and Nyx fought, for reasons perhaps incomprehensible to us, during the creation of the far lands of the Humans and Dwarves. The Trow were placed in Wyrd's lands, and all further attempts to create life there were subsequently crushed. Despondant at his loss, Wyrd came to our lands, and created both us Elves, and the vile Goblins with whom we have forever been at war. Perhaps our own trolls and even the giant tree-creatures rumored to live in the deepest forests are the creations of Nyx, considering their resemblance to her mighty Trow.

But the banished Dark Gods returned to our world every thousand years, and over the millenia weakened the Trow to such a point that Wyrd's creations stood a chance of survival. So he left us to our own ways, and created the younger races of Humans and Dwarves and their kin, creatures spoken of in Antinial's records called Oghres and fir'Bolg, on his own lands far from here.

In those lands arose the great nation of Yer-ks, from whom our human fellows have come. They became sailors of such might that the goddess Nyx felt threatened that they would encroach on her own lands to the east of ours, which the old human records call the Faraway. So they had her Trow summon the magics of the Dark Gods, which had been used against them in a great battle of centuries past, to drown their kingdom and all its people. Only the seamen who found their way here remain of that once great nation.

Later still, the Dwarves conquered the mysteries of flight, and some of their early sky-sailors were carried here by the trade winds. They have since been stranded, and so decided to make our lands their home. After them came another wave of humans, neighbors of the Yer-ks who inherited their sailing ways. These men traversed the polar seas to settle the Northland Kingdom.

As for what has become of these gods, we have not yet found a conclusive answer. Nyx is spoken of rarely in Antinial's lost texts, and never in my own. Some texts record that her and Wyrd's link to the One Dream was shattered, leaving them all but powerless in our realm. Presumably the Dark Gods still circle our world, raining terror on the human lands far from here. Perhaps the Great Wandering Star, seen hovering along our horizon every thousand years, has some relation to them. Perhaps it is the reasons that humans here now worship the stars, seeking hope that their gods may still reside in the pure light of the night and someday see fit to return them home.

But chances are slim that any of us shall ever know the answers to these questions. For Antinial and I, it is enough that the questions have been raised, and will continue to drive debate in this great school for centuries to come. For those whose sensabilities I have offended, please note that, even if these incredible tales somehow prove true, it cannot possibly detract from the pure beauty of nature which we have forever adored. Whether created by Earth or God, the essential purity of them remains, and can never be taken away.
The general idea is that the Seventh God is in fact the Leveller himself, and that the Elves and Goblins have been having recurring wars in the same pattern as the races we know on this side of the world.
A-Red
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by A-Red »

Awesome stuff, thanks for posting!
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DarthRevan555
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by DarthRevan555 »

PSSSH i knew it.. i stole that idea from when I made a lil plug as a kid...

East and West sides of the world pretty much trade places during cycle.

When west gets peace, East gets a visit from the leveler

etc.

good stuff

glad to know my theories on TSG were almost spot on XD
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omfgitsclem
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by omfgitsclem »

Someone pointed this out to me regarding TSG lore...

The story for TSG originated when we decided we wanted to do something 'bigger' and 'unique'. I started talking to another designer at the Ad Agency in Nashville that I was a VP/Creative Director at, who was a very visual writer. He told me of a story (novel) that he had been working on and that become the starting point for TSG. He wrote the broad points and others filled in the details. It all came together very quickly from a story and concept standpoint. (Like days/weeks fast from concept to working title and direction for visuals and goals).
He's worked for several comic book companies, and spent 4+'ish years inside Disney Imagineering area. I think he's out there freelancing now.

Honestly, at this point it's all kind of a blur and hard to remember.

ciao,
tehclem
Last edited by omfgitsclem on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DarthRevan555
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by DarthRevan555 »

OMFG ITS CLEM
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by killerking »

Cool story!
jack
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Re: A desire for the back story of The Seventh God

Post by jack »

Literally 7 years late to this thread, but wanted to chime in as the chief story writer/conceptualizer for Homeland and Homeland II.

I'd mostly moved on from day-to-day involvement at Creation when TSG really started firing up, so I can't speak to any final decisions as to how the creators envisioned tying it all to the Myth universe.

But, as noted earlier, TSG had a direct connection to the Homeland maps via the Northman units. Homeland and Homeland II, in turn, were set entirely within the Myth universe, taking place immediately after the conclusion of Myth II: Soulblighter. So unless TSG folks just lifted the Northman units from Homeland wholesale and pretended they didn't exist beforehand, it's a safe bet TSG, Homeland, and Myth all existed in the same universe (as mentioned above, it's clear folks involved at least wanted that to be the case).

I have my own headcanon as to how all of this fit together, and still have ideas about stories that connected it all (don't get me started on Shalam/Ice Giant lore), but don't know how those involved made sense of it all.
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