Philosophy on creating maps and plugins

[Zeph]

Too all mapmakers and downloaders, what do you prefer playing ?

1. Regular myth net maps which means a new map made to be played with the myth units. The kind of map you would play in MWC. Those maps typically only take a few weeks to create and are very quick to test.

2. Highly modified tagsets/maps are maps that were meant to be played with the myth units, but have quite a bit of new elements to it. Examples of these would be Shiver's turn, Mazzarin's demise(could be a total conversion too), heroes of haxors and dorfball and fetchball. These usually take a few months to finish.

3. Mini campaigns are a set of small coops (1 to 5) that may or may not include many new units. They are still based off on the myth units. Good examples of this is Grave tidings, battle for urbarahz and many more. They take a few months to create and include lots of private testing.

4. Total conversion are huge plugins containing mostly new units to replace the myth universe. There used to be many total conversions in the past like leggo my myth, alien dark tide, ww2 etc. These days, the amount of total conversion is very small, I can only think of Quarantine:Deadfall and Special Forced 2 as the only new TC. These plugins usually take more than 1 year to finish mainly because of all the new maps and units.

5. Campaign are huge sets of level (5 to 999999) They have a completely new storyline, sometimes new units, lots of coop maps and may include some netmaps. These are the longest plugins to create and it is normal to take more than 2-3 years to finish one. Current examples of campaigns are The Wind Age, Fallen's vengeance.

What i'm trying to do here is to know what you guys are most excited about. Either it be lots of quick coop and modified maps/tagsets or huge projects. You may not agree, but myth will be coming to an end in the next few years (2-3 ?) and starting huge projects may OR MAY NOT(!) be the best way to help the game.

Zeph

[Sonixboom]

regs and mods, doesnt matter much to me as long as the map and the tagset go hand in hand

-Sonix

[haravikk]

I like ordinary myth net maps (basic Myth units) and mini-campaigns or solo-levels using few new units.

Often when new units are involved there is a tendency to go overboard, or not enough attention is paid to balance, so sticking to the regular units is a good idea. Custom hero units with straightforward attributes is fine too.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy full conversions and things, but they have to be done carefully, even The Seventh God which is a huge undertaking has a ton of imbalances that spoil it a bit; still good fun to play through but overall none of the maps rank among my favourites.

[Deqlyn]

I prefer Gimble LMOTH normal units and lots of camping and a nice drawn out 5 minute sudden death.

[Jon God]

I like these types of plugins:

• The kind that make this feel like a different game all together: Clue, Deadfall, Tower Defense, WWII, ect.

• Short or Long campaigns, either with new or old Myth units.

[Pyro]

I like 2, 3, 5, and sometimes 4. If there is major alterations it can demotivate trying it, as well as what Haravikk pointed out about balance. Reg multi can be fun too, but I got tired of that long ago. It is all about finding the right balance. Too much modification can be overwhelming and therefore not fun to try. Too much coop can be boring too. If it is too hard it can be boring, and if it is too easy it can be boring.

[Cobalt 7]

My biggest interest/ and concern is how map making community has chosen to embrace the idea of Myth. In doing so it seems like many have lost sight of what Myth's original gameplay ideal was, and now design their plugins based on online Meta-gaming and tournament play. Very few people seem to ask "Will this be fun for everyone?" or "Will this still be fun in a year or three?" It's smothered things.

The Myth community is as good as dead. It slowly bled to death after years of new games, and server drama. The best thing now would to start thinking about the kind of content you want to last past Myth's death for the future players. Look at how fickle our remaining pool of players are. You never see them boot up a round of "Grave Tidings" or the Soldiers from Tyr. Nor do you see them play any fun stuff like Dorfball, or Pool Party. And just how many of them play some of the good old TFL and M2 maps besides "Raid on the plains" and what not? How may of them host a campaign of Jinn or The Seventh God? How many still play Frenzy of the Damned? Instead we only see a few persistent WW2 holdouts, and a bunch of "Tournament players", amongst all the people who seem to just open Myth and minimize it for days on end while sitting AFK in the lobby.

The truth is that once the community's multiplayer nearly dries up, all the average and generic maps are going to get lost in the dust. Few people managed to do it as well as Bungie did. Most of the solo's are too hard, or poorly made, and not worth downloading.

When I remember Myth in another decade, I'll fondly remember how much fun Mazz 6 was, or some of the maps like Frenzy of the Damned. I'll remember the Campaigns and total conversions like B&G, Jinn, and TSG. I'll remember all the fun I had playing with the Myth Jumpers on Pool Party, and other silly maps, or doing LMOTH on the basic M2 maps. I won't remember all the terribly hard or poorly made plugins that felt like a kick in the nads punishing me for trying to have fun.

If you want to make a good map/ plugin, then think about how can you naturally build on the core foundations of Myth's gameplay? After all the levels we've played, how do you make Dorfs, Archers, and Warriors feel new? How do you make "Hold out until X" or "Make your way over to Y" feel exciting?

Focus on
- Good stories. Not War & Peace, just solid.
- refreshing twists on the classic gameplay. Too many plugins just creat an inferior copy of the campaign. Put a fresh spin on things. Think of a new angle on a stale subject.
- Keep the pace of the original games (study how you play your favorite Myth campaign levels). How long does a typical level on each difficulty last? What increases the length? What map features are responsible for this?
- How do you turn a small feature into a major element? For instance, Across the Gjol had the rain effects that turned a easy defense level into a nightmare midway through the level.

As for right now? I'm just wondering why no one wants to play Mazz 6 anymore.

[Pyro]

Mazz 6 just isn't what it used to be. Maybe playing it too much made people get tired of it. Or when more and more people found it easy to beat it in legendary eventhough it used to be known as a very hard map. Take away the challenge and people will lose interest.

[Cobalt 7]

Get tired of Mazz 6? How? There's so many characters to play as and master. I still haven't gotten the kinks out of my Pyromancer strategies, and the Electromancer.... and I could use a tune up with the Paladin....

And then there's the Forest Giant, Ranger, Paladin, as well as the Strider, Pathfinder, Mortar...(never can get things quite right with the Dorfs) Zerk squads, Archer Teams, Heron Guards....

and would you believe me that I've played several dozen rounds of Mazz 5-6, and never once played as Mazzarin himself?

How anyone could get tired of Mazz 6 permanently is a mystery to me.

[Sonixboom]

How anyone could get tired of Mazz 6 permanently is a mystery to me.

You just met me, I personally play mazz once every 2 months or so. Its 3-5 hours long and i just dont ahve free time most days.

I prefer short 10-14 min games of desert CTF and some venice lmoth

-Sonix

[Souly]

I like new things...maps,model,tree's,stuff and units.

I wish i met myself back when i started on my first plug, one that i could have compeleted to perfection with new units if only i didnt start making new units...

Id have to say anythign more than one map these day's aint that awesom idea, if your trying to make something the rest of the mythers would like. Huge lack of intrest and to much time needed to complete it. Id love a mazz alike map...i liked it because of its awesom balanced out system and also keeping it related to Myth!

Mb Zeph you should hook up with me and we complete either Q or the 9.
I cant believe the lack of intrest you all have for new units...people didnt even realy post many requests on my post "FREE UNIT" i could have pooped out 3-5 new units~!

sigh

[ducky]

Cobalt 7: the "Tournament Community" has kept this game alive for the past six years.

Yes, there were lots of people who played Myth casually, mainly to giggle at explosions, and many of those played all sorts of random maps. Those people moved on to other games, because they could easily get their giggles elsewhere.


The reason every single tournament player comes back is because Myth offers us a competitive experience we can't find in any other game, modern or classic. If someone did come out with a truly comparable game, we'd probably move on, but I've never seen anything come close.



From a "tournament player"'s perspective, I can say personally that with the advent of 1.7 (with the ease one can now download 3p maps), it's a lot easier to host good, competitive netmaps.

Hosting is like DJing a party, and you can't always play whatever you want, but whenever the mood is right it can be a LOT of fun to venture into 3p territory. Personally I push for it whenever I can, and if someone makes/made a good map, I'm all about getting it into rotation.



Campaigns can be fun, especially for boring days when no one's online, but the main problem is that it takes a great deal of time to make, and considerably less time to beat, and rarely* does a campaign have replay value (*unless your name is BabyShaker).


TC's can be hit (ww2, sf, quar) or miss (adt, jinn(?)), the problem again being it takes a lot of work and these days there just isn't the playerbase for much of a payout. On the rare occasions that you can get a game of "tournament players" into a game with a good TC, the results can be inCREDIBle.



Lastly, with regards to "off-myth" maps, there are some that argue these (the good ones, anyway) kill Myth, offering legitimately fun alternatives for many tournament players. I'm not really sure about that, but from my own perspective, I have gotten maximum enjoyment out of all the best of them (I have thoroughly enjoyed every mazz, though, yes, after beating mazz 6 legendary with 4 units I have almost no desire to play it again; also fetchball has provided me with some very memorable moments; not to mention HoH, since you threw it in with these, is an incredibly fun plug).





So anyway,