Respawning Waves

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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby Graydon » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:33 pm

Something I haven't suggested you try yet is to create an arrangement of containers of waypoints... say 4 or 5? Then each time your PLAT dies, MUNG in new waypoints to the PLMO and restart it? If it only regards the _most recent set of waypoints_ you should be able to randomize of those 5 sets of waypoints and always have a 'fresh' set. If it picks the same set as previous, could have it fire again on failure, or something?

All speculation at this point, good on you for even half figuring out a solution, worst comes to worst it'll work for you.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:01 pm

@ Graydon: I'll give that a try in a few minutes. I've been trying alot of different things that are similar to that (like mungering in a new set of waypoints before reactivating the platoon...failed =/)

@anybody interested: Myths scripting engine is fucktarded (in a way we all love, I'm sure.)

Short story: I got it to work.

Long story: I made a test mesh. nothign on it but two squads of two myrks plus my guys to kill the myrks when they finish their move. The two myrk squads are in a platoon that platoon moves to a location. When they die they, a munger replaces the Initial State of the platoon with the platoon move it first had (my first solution.) AND IT WORKED. I killed them over and over, they respawned and followed their waypoints like CHAMPS only to be slayed again and to follow those damn waypoints AGAIN. I DID IT!!!!

Wait...they aren't interpolating though. No problem, I'll just flip the flag to true, give them a little spacing and then...hey...WTF!?!? When the platoon move has interpolation turned on, it ceases to work. The platoon move says I ALREADY DID IT, IM NOT DOING IT AGAIN. But turn interpolation off and the Pmove says "right on, lets do it over and over and over again!"


Wth myth.


I'm going to try using the munger to remove and add their interpolation back. I'm getting closer and closer...I'm sure i can get it to work.

EDIT: further oddities... debugging the platoon and the PLMO... in both cases (with interpolate and without) the platoon claims it has no state IMMEDIATELY after respawn. It claims that, but when interpolate is off they still follow the waypoints...
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:12 pm

I'm so close I can taste it.


Question: Can a munger munger itself safely?

Example: a Munger first replaces the parameter of a move action with new waypoints. The next parameter in the munger is to change the waypoints that the self same munger assigns to the move action, so that the NEXT time the munger is fired, it gives the NEW waypoints?


Will houses fly?


Edit: I need help working through this ...

So the platoon currentley marches along the waypoints until it reaches a TUNI JUST before the end of it's tracks that cause it to end the move and go to a new action from there.

EX: Say they have 3 waypoints. They go to 1, start interpolating, go to two, head towards three but get cut off by the tuni, attack everything and die.
They respawn. GOOD NEWS: they won't just stand there! BUT, they know they finished 1 and two already, but they didnt make it to three SO they decide "we're going to Two, because thats the last place we succssfully achieved, THEN im heading to three."

Well, of course what ends up happening is essentially no better than what I had before: they run to the location rather than interpolating to it.

IF i replace the waypoints though so that 1 and two are right at their feet, then 3 is where 1 was, 4 is where 2 was, and 5 is where 3 was, they kind of kitter on the spot when they respawn the first time, and then they interpolate their way along the waypoints LIKE THEYRE SUPPOSED TO!!! YES!!

then they die, though, and now they think "4 was the last place I made it successfully...I should go there, THEN start interpolating." Thus, they are back to their old problem of running to the hill. I need a way to ADD waypoints to the munger that REPLACES the waypoints of the move. That way, the number of waypoints at their feet will always be enough to cover their number of move waypoints they have completed, and can start interpolating from their spawn.

Does that make any sense?
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby A-Red » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:37 pm

I don't quite have time to read all of that in detail right now, but I would advise against using a Munger to affect itself. Why not Munger the Munger with a different Munger?

As long as you only have one (wayp, world_point_2d) parameter in the Munger you're trying to alter, I suspect it would work.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:41 pm

I came on here to make the edit "well i guess i could always just use another munger... but you beat me to it :)
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:49 pm

I want to use a munger to append the waypoints that the first munger assigns to the move, but I can't add waypoints to the BEGINNING of the waypoint list, only the end :( frustrating.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:36 pm

The move action is linked to a container called waypoints.

When they all die, a munger replaces the contents of waypoints with two waypoints at their feet.

Then, another munger uses Append Parameter to add their original waypoints to waypoints.

Then their platoon starts over.

Result: They only follow the two waypoints at their feet before stopping. Why is my "Append Parameter" not appending the 3 waypoints on to the end?
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:05 pm

I am here to report humble "success."

First of all, if anyone can get a munger to APPEND a set of waypoints to another set of waypoints, then PLEASE LET ME KNOW, because that would be THE most efficient way to do this in regards to both map actions and ease of scripting for the scripter.

That being said, I can say the I have succeeded in making a platoon for all intensive purposes capable of being recycled through a respawn. There may be ways to streamline this method, but I don't think any amount of streamlining will cut it down to a very reasonable amount (if anyone sees a way, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I would love to use this method, but right now it is actually easier for me to just create 5 PLMO's that are identical and just assign the next state to the platoon each time it respawns (I've never seen my platoon die and come back that many times in a 15 minute game except ONCE.)

So without further ado: The Recyclable Platoon.

1.) First, create an indestructible, non targetable unit with no attacks of his own that is SUPER fast and with a scale that is so tiny it can't be seen (don't go too small though or you won't be able to easily select him.) I call him the Sprinter. He is my hero.

2.) Got your Sprinter ready? Put him in a squad alongside the other squads in your platoon.

3.) Set up your platoon to do whatever it is that you want, but make sure that LOOP is set to TRUE. When you reveal them, leave your Sprinter INVISIBLE. He won't be serving his team just yet.

4.) Set up a TUNI to detect when your whole platoon is dead (except for that Sprinter of course.) When they die, the fun begins.

5.) The TUNI activates a CTRL that reveals the sprinter and (just to be safe) reactivates the PLMO. THANKS TO EXTENSIVE TESTING I CAN TELL YOU FOR SURE, THAT PLATOON REMEMBERS WHERE IT WAS AND WHERE IT IS GOING - YOU CAN'T MAKE IT FORGET IF YOU TRY.

6.) It also activates another TUNI that is looking at a tiny little polygon right around the first waypoint that you want your platoon to head to when they respawn. The sprinter will, if you made him SUPER fast, go through all the remaining waypoints in your PLMO, and will hit this TUNI you set up to detect him.

7.) And so it is all ready! The TUNI activates a CTRL to make your Sprinter invisible, and then you can reveal your platoon and reactivate the platoon (just to be safe) and off they'll go, interpolating and following the points in exactly the order they first followed them!

Amazingly, it works. Which is awesome. Sometimes, you need to activate a quick munger that replaces the PLMO parameter of the PLAT with itself (weird, I know, but I already showed how that will keep them from refusing to budge upon respawn.) Other times, with this loop method, you don't need to? So I don't know what is up with that, but hey I won't complain.

If you don't want them actually looping, just add a TUNI at the end of their move that deactivates the PLMO and activates whatever it is you want them to do from there that IS recyclable (LEGI, ATTA etc...). Then just be sure to activate the platoon when you activate the sprinter.

Like I said, I would love to get the munger method working. That uses only 3 map actions with not many parameters to achieve a PERFECT recyclable platoon. I call this method I've discovered a "success" because it is so map action intensive that, like I said, it is easier for me to just create 5 identical PLMO's for my platoon to follow.

But anyways, it is party time over here, to celebrate my "success!"

Thanks everybody that helped, it was fun.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby A-Red » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:00 am

Nice.

As for your other question, I don't think Append Parameter is intended to be used that way. It doesn't add waypoints to the parameter that already exists, it adds a whole new parameter--meaning that you now have two waypoint parameters in the action instead of one. It's probably just ignoring the second one.

If you wanted to add waypoints to an existing waypoint parameter, you'd use Replace Parameter and put in all the waypoints, old and new. It wasn't the solution to the platoon problem, but that's how you'd add waypoints.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:51 pm

So what is the difference between Append Parameter and Insert Parameter?
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby Graydon » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:50 am

Append works like you think it does, it just won't work for certain containers like wayp. So for example, you could append subj or obje monster identifiers to a attackers or targets param. Insert would be adding a param that the original action didn't have listed, say like adding in the special ability flag to an Attack that was only a plain ATTA before.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby A-Red » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:50 pm

You're right though, I did get Append and Insert mixed up. I haven't done this in awhile. Guess we were both wrong :)

Append Parameter is also good for things like Actions to Activate in ACLIs. I'm not sure why it doesn't work for waypoints. I'd still suggest Replace Parameter, since there aren't very many waypoints and it won't be a lot of work.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:49 am

It's okay, I appreciate the help all the same :)

The problem with replace parameter is that... well, let me explain what I am trying to have it do, and you tell me if you think replace parameter can complete this on it's own.

Hypothetical PLMO: has a link that links it to a container action called "Waypoints." There are 3 waypoints inside. The associated platoon spawns in and starts marching along. It makes it through 1, and all the way to 2. Then, on the way to three, a TUNI says "You're almost at 3!! Turn your PLMO off and start atttacking everything on the map!" (the reason for this step is so that the platoon never finishes it's move. If the move is completed, Myth forever thinks that PLMO is DONE. So that's how I avoid that.) Okay so now they're off running around, and finally they die. A TUNI picks that up and starts the chain reaction that will replace the waypoints of the "Waypoints" action with new points. Here is where various plans diverge.

Option A) (preffered method) Use a Munger to Replace the waypoints with 3 new waypoints that are very similar to the original 3.
Problem: Myth is retarded. Here is what the PLAT thinks when it respawns and is told to execute that PLMO: "Well, I already made it to 2, but I didn't finish my move to 3, so I'll just go straight to 2 (without interpolating or anything like that...), and then I'll congregate there and begin my move towards three like a REAL platoon."

So...I thought of solutions, and wanted to do this:

Option B) Upon their death, the first munger replaces the parameters of "Waypoints" with two waypoints right at the feet of the platoon's spawn point. That way, the platoon will run straight to the second waypoint (which is right at it's feet, causing nothing more than a momentary stutter step...) and then begin it's move like normal, heading to 3 (which is where 1 originally was) then 4 (originally 2) and towards 5 (originally 3). So, the second munger will APPEND the waypoints parameter with the 3 "marching" waypoints. Finally, a third MUNG will munger the first MUNG and APPEND two new waypoints to it, also right at the feet of the platoon. That way, when the platoon runs off and dies a second time, it will have made it to waypoint 4, so if the first munger is now adding FOUR waypoints right at the feet of the platoon, they will stutter step 4 times, and then be on their merry way heading to 5 (originally 1), then 6 (originally 2), and heading toward 7 (originally 3.)

Option B would work like a charm and would be MAD GRACEFUL (4 MA with very few PARAM's to give you a virtually endless loop of platoons.) Eventually you would probably hit the limit of PLMO waypoints, but I doubt it would respawn enough times in any normal game. The problem is simply "append doesn't work the way it should for waypoints."

Maybe I should mention this in the 1.8 thread...I could REALLY use it. Although I could also ask for them to add like a flag to PLMO's that reset the platoon's progress on it when and if it dies or something.

Or maybe it is just impossible...
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby Pyro » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:30 am

Replace Parameter can do what you wanted Append Parameter to do. So just replace the waypoints param with one that has more waypoints and that in theory should work out. I have always had better luck with Replacing when Append does not appear to work.
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Re: Respawning Waves

Postby fildred13 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:02 pm

So, I would replace the waypoints with a new set that includes two extra waypoints at the beginning, yes. But I would need a new map action for every time they respawn, so if I want even just four respawns across the match, that means having four separate mungers, plus an acli to select which munger to apply. 5 map actions. Not terrible, but if I want them to respawn, say 8 times? now suddenly its up to 9 map actions. your right, not a terrible solution, I just really wanted to make the infinite recycle possible (if only in theory) :D
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